daily record

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

According to todays edition ICT have given a life-time ban to a supporter for the BJK banner. Anyone know if there's any truth in this?

[L_G]

According to todays edition ICT have given a life-time ban to a supporter for the BJK banner. Anyone know if there's any truth in this?

As far as I'm aware no disciplinary action has been taken as yet.

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Its been mentioned a lot in the phone in as well

[RiG]

Can't see anything in the online edition. Is it just a wee snippet in the paper? What does it actually say?

[KingBeastie]

According to todays edition ICT have given a life-time ban to a supporter for the BJK banner

Good work ICT.

[BornCaley]

what is the BJK banner?

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

what is the BJK banner?

caley4life and tomcaleyjag thought it would be a good idea to display a banner reading " Big Jock Knew " on one side and on the other side "caley won 3-2" or words to that effect!!!

[BornCaley]

i just remembered what BJK was as i clicked on the thread again.

Not sure if ICT are starting a precident with this, as these banners are rife at Castle Greyskull (Ibrox)...there have

certainly been some dark secrets at C*ltic over the years, so ICT punishing their own fan seems a bit nazi-ish

I think this is more about wee Tom CJ & C4L than the banner

You have my support TCJ & C4L

[chris123]

I thought the sectarian singing was a particulary stupid thing to do, but I don't see the problem with ""Big Jock Knew We Won 3-2. Its taking the **** out of both the Rangers fans and the Celtic fans and is referring to the idea that Jock Stein knew that we beat Celtic 3-2, nothing to do with allegations of child abuse etc. I thought it was quite funny.

[RossP]

Fully support the clubs actions if true. Having a BJK banner at any ICT game is a complete embarrassment and shouldn't be encouraged or tolerated.

[Scotty]

I have a feeling that any action taken will depend on what, if any, sanctions are taken against the club by the SPL.

[ictdavid]

what actions are gonna be taken? Rangers sing bjk every game even hearts sang it up here last season. Nothing happens to them.

And i hardly think any of the press heard us sing the famine is over.

[chris123]

I thought the sectarian singing was a particulary stupid thing to do, but I don't see the problem with ""Big Jock Knew We Won 3-2. Its taking the **** out of both the Rangers fans and the Celtic fans and is referring to the idea that Jock Stein knew that we beat Celtic 3-2, nothing to do with allegations of child abuse etc. I thought it was quite funny.

Fully support the clubs actions if true. Having a BJK banner at any ICT game is a complete embarrassment and shouldn't be encouraged or tolerated.

But they didnt have a BJK banner. See above.

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

I thought the sectarian singing was a particulary stupid thing to do, but I don't see the problem with ""Big Jock Knew We Won 3-2. Its taking the **** out of both the Rangers fans and the Celtic fans and is referring to the idea that Jock Stein knew that we beat Celtic 3-2, nothing to do with allegations of child abuse etc. I thought it was quite funny.

How would jock Stein have known ICT beat Celtic 3-2?

[chris123]

I thought the sectarian singing was a particulary stupid thing to do, but I don't see the problem with ""Big Jock Knew We Won 3-2. Its taking the **** out of both the Rangers fans and the Celtic fans and is referring to the idea that Jock Stein knew that we beat Celtic 3-2, nothing to do with allegations of child abuse etc. I thought it was quite funny.

How would jock Stein have known ICT beat Celtic 3-2?

Whooooooooosh

[Scotty]

what actions are gonna be taken? Rangers sing bjk every game even hearts sang it up here last season. Nothing happens to them. And i hardly think any of the press heard us sing the famine is over.

You just dont get it do you. The banner may have been humorous to those who made it, but to most it was offensive (not sectarian, but offensive nonetheless). You can argue the "we won 3-2" part of that till you are blue in the face, it will get you nowhere. The simple fact of the matter is that all anyone focussed on was the first part of the banner and I would suggest you are well aware of how insulting Cetic fans would find this, otherwise you wouldnt have produced it. The man died 23 years ago (while working for our country's national football team) so its not likely he's got a Setanta subscription or gets text alerts from our resident Ghostbuster !!!

The excuse that Rangers sing something or Hearts do something just doesnt wash. Just because other teams' supporters do something doesnt make it right and doesnt give our fans carte blanche to join in with it. How those clubs deal with it is up to them (or UEFA if they do nothing). What we are talking about here is ICT and how they deal with it if it is seen as an issue.

I have no inside track on this, or what they might choose to do. I am just speaking as a supporter and my gut feeling is that the level of consequence for you guys will be directly related to the amount of grief the club get either from a body such as the police, or from football authorities such as the SPL. If the club do choose to do anything about it you have given them a huge scope of sanctions they can actually make that choice from.......

In reading the club and SPL rules (even if I dont necessarily agree with everything contained within them) it is VERY EASY to make the accusation of "Disorderly Conduct" in relation to the banner, especially points 2 and 3 of the SPL rules.

2) using threatening, abusive or insulting words or conduct.

3) displaying or writing anything which is threatening, abusive or insulting.

The club's stated sanction for these...... "Any supporter who engages in unacceptable conduct will be liable for sanctions imposed by the Club which may involve ejection from the Stadium, withdrawal of season ticket and/or exclusion from future matches involving the Club".

As for the sectarian chanting, the SPL (and club) ground regulations quite simply state the following

11) The use of threatening behaviour, foul or abusive language is strictly forbidden. Racial, Sectarian, homophobic or discriminatory abuse or chanting is also forbidden and is considered as unacceptable conduct and may result in arrest and a lifetime ban from regulated football matches.

And that is ALL football matches, not just ICT ones.

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Chris dont act smart with the"Whooooooooosh " comment and answer my question if you can?

[chris123]

Chris dont act smart with the"Whooooooooosh " comment and answer my question if you can?

I have already said, it was a **** take out of the idea that what Big Jock Knew was not that there was Child abuse issues at Parkhead but that we beat Celtic 3-2. Therefore there was nothing insulting about that banner. I was extremely disappointed with the sectarian singing, and will have to reconsider going to Section G in future, but I think that the PC Brigade are going over the top with this, and can't see why anyone in there right mind would find what the boys did insulting.

Cue a barrage of abuse from you towards my character DC, but that is how I feel on the matter.

RiG, see about halfway down the page.

Daily Record

Edited to say, I have not been to Section G before, and was not involved with any of this.

Edited October 21, 2008 by chris123

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Your just not getting it at all Chris , it IS insulting to mention BJK in any context.

[RiG]

RiG, see about halfway down the page.

Daily Record

Cheers.

"I'm a Rangers fan and that was a disgrace. If anything like that had happened at Celtic or Rangers there would have been an outcry."

What rubbish. It goes on every single game between the Old Filth and you never hear anything done about it.

[Guest birdog]

Chris if those are your true views on the matter, why feel compelled to distance yourself from section G?

Edited to say, I have not been to Section G before, and was not involved with any of this.

[Scotty]

As I said above, I accept that the lads were trying to be humorous. It DID NOT work.

Perhaps the sectarian singing that followed the displaying of the banner made it more of an issue than it would have been had they behaved but when you add the two together, it was bang out of order. For the first time in my life, I was embarrassed to be an ICT supporter, especially later in the day when I spoke with Rangers, Celtic and Hearts fans at the Toronto FC game.

[cairngorm]

I thought the sectarian singing was a particulary stupid thing to do, but I don't see the problem with ""Big Jock Knew We Won 3-2. Its taking the **** out of both the Rangers fans and the Celtic fans and is referring to the idea that Jock Stein knew that we beat Celtic 3-2, nothing to do with allegations of child abuse etc. I thought it was quite funny.

Dont know what you are smoking but it must be better tha anything that is sold in Amsterdam

[Guest birdog]

As I said above, I accept that the lads were trying to be humorous.

Where exactly does an attempt to be humorous cross the line into a premeditated attempt at causing offence to opposition fans?

Unless these guys are truly ignorant of what "Big Jock Knew" then there is no excuse for the banner. It was a deliberate attempt to wind up the opposition fans as much as possible, as admitted by the guys themselves, so they knew exactly how offensive it was and why.

I am quite sure that there are people supporting Glasweejian teams who think that wind ups of a similar nature are incredibly humorous but we would be all to happy to condemn them for similar antics.

Stating that these are just silly wee boys who don't know better is scary because these silly wee boys who think that these actions are funny are going to grow up into silly big men who don't know better.

Personally I believe that if the reports are true a life ban is way too harsh, footballers who have been banned for racism are never banned for life the first time 1-5 years would be more just.

I know what you said about back seat moderating Scotty but I do think this thread breaches your privacy policy with regard to unverified press reports. (Hart)

[Scotty]

I know what you said about back seat moderating Scotty but I do think this thread breaches your privacy policy with regard to unverified press reports. (Hart)

I don't believe so. The first post says that "According to todays edition ICT have given a life-time ban to a supporter for the BJK banner". This has been followed up by a link to the relevant website that shows that comment in print. whether the facts are accurate is yet to be seen, but it is a discussion about something already in print in one of the papers.

Stating that these are just silly wee boys who don't know better is scary because these silly wee boys who think that these actions are funny are going to grow up into silly big men who don't know better.

Sorry, cant see where anyone has said that. If you are inferring I said it by mentioning "As I said above, I accept that the lads were trying to be humorous" then please re-read my previous post and the rest of that post. I think I have made it quite clear that this is not my viewpoint.