Merged: I BELIEVE.

[dundeefc]

He's a County fan not a Dundee fan :004:

Wrong.

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

He's a County fan not a Dundee fan

Wrong.

I was referring to Delboy not you .

[RiG]

If this Dundee fan is anything like the ones on P & B they are typically of lower than normal intelligence.

[Granty24]

If this Dundee fan is anything like the ones on P & B they are typically of lower than normal intelligence.

Haha Top class

[Guest Mahonio]

Im still here, Seriously how bad are you's finacially. I would try to make cut backs now and rebuilt for the next 3 seasons

Blah, Blah, Blah.

I am actually serious I dont like to see any club in financial trouble

Not even us? I will answer your question by saying, we ain't in financial trouble because i don't believe we are or at least, i don't until papers or media say we are.

Happy to answer as i don't take rivalry to the extreme :D :D .

Got to be the most absurd quote of the year . Take your head out of the sand and have a look at whats going on at the club ffs

Don't you talk to me like that, just because i don't believe whats written does not mean you can get wild with me, why should i tolerate this? Would you allow me to speak to you like that and get away with it?

If you talk to me like that again then i will think about leaving this forum which would be unfair because i would have been driven out of it ok :( :(

[dan_ict]

I BELIVE TOO

[latviaman]

Im still here, Seriously how bad are you's finacially. I would try to make cut backs now and rebuilt for the next 3 seasons

Grammar / spelling minus points says it all really, most on his home site cannot even read!!

[Wilsononourwing]

Im still here, Seriously how bad are you's finacially. I would try to make cut backs now and rebuilt for the next 3 seasons

Blah, Blah, Blah.

I am actually serious I dont like to see any club in financial trouble

Not even us? I will answer your question by saying, we ain't in financial trouble because i don't believe we are or at least, i don't until papers or media say we are.

Happy to answer as i don't take rivalry to the extreme :D :D .

Got to be the most absurd quote of the year . Take your head out of the sand and have a look at whats going on at the club ffs :angry:

Don't you talk to me like that, just because i don't believe whats written does not mean you can get wild with me, why should i tolerate this? Would you allow me to speak to you like that and get away with it?

If you talk to me like that again then i will think about leaving this forum which would be unfair because i would have been driven out of it ok :( :(

Mahonio never mind the comments just KEEP BELIEVING

BELIEVE

[Guest Mahonio]

Im still here, Seriously how bad are you's finacially. I would try to make cut backs now and rebuilt for the next 3 seasons

Blah, Blah, Blah.

I am actually serious I dont like to see any club in financial trouble

Not even us? I will answer your question by saying, we ain't in financial trouble because i don't believe we are or at least, i don't until papers or media say we are.

Happy to answer as i don't take rivalry to the extreme :D :D .

Got to be the most absurd quote of the year . Take your head out of the sand and have a look at whats going on at the club ffs :angry:

Don't you talk to me like that, just because i don't believe whats written does not mean you can get wild with me, why should i tolerate this? Would you allow me to speak to you like that and get away with it?

If you talk to me like that again then i will think about leaving this forum which would be unfair because i would have been driven out of it ok :( :(

Mahonio never mind the comments just KEEP BELIEVING

BELIEVE

I will keep believing, but i am not going to let this person talk to me like that without even apologising for personal criticism or i will have no option but to either leave the forum or take it to the moderators.

[caleykid1994]

Where has all this rubbish about us being in finacial trouble come from???

And where is this rubbish that Hayes and Rooney are gone in January???

Hayes and Rooney will go nowhere as soon as Imrie and Barrowman are off the payroll(which is a lot of money) we can then look at tying down players on longer deals but the main four to tie down first is Hayes, Rooney, Esson and Foran. No-one has specualted that Hayes and Rooney are being linked with clubs(although i did hear that Dundee were planning a ?600,000 bid for Hayes(yeh right!). I dont think we will get promoted this season but i do believe that we will get 2nd and then go on next season(with most of our team) and take the title.

[The Mantis]

Like Scotty, I'll always believe in ICT no matter what bumbling halfwits are involved in it.

However I think some of the younger posters need a reality check. Just because we've spent a third of our history in the SPL doesn't mean that is our natural home.

If you've been with the club since 94 you will appreciate what hard work it was, especially escaping from SFL1 in 2004. Throughout the first 10 or 12 years of its life, ICT was a special club to be part of. ICT were capable of miracles. Our wee neighbours across the bridge threw McGregor's millions at the problem but they couldn't crack ICT because ICT had some of the best people at the right time. Pele was a special manager and he put together an amazing squad, a few of whom are still here. Robbo was able to make the same players nearly impossible to beat and turned us into a team that could grind out a 1-0.

About 3 years ago it all started to go off the boil. Before that, it would have been ICT coming from 2 down to beat Dundee and not the other way round.

If Dundee lift the title this year then Partick will fancy themselves at the head of the queue next time. Falkirk or whoever comes down will want to bounce back up. Dunfermline have just given McIntyre a new contract because he's going in the right direction.

Any talk of ICT being second this year is nonsense. Let's get through the season, let Terry and June wander off to pastures new, and get somebody who actually cares about the club. Ditch all the career pros who had to look up Inverness on a map and get back to basics. It'll probably take five years if we make the right decisions first time.

[Johnboy]

Great post, Mantis... :022:

We probably will have to resign ourselves to a few more seasons in SFL1 - hopefully no worse than that.

Totally agree with getting someone in to manage who actually cares about the club, rather than their own CV....

There are one or two out there, but the right people will have to be in place to make any new appointments. That might be the difficult bit....

:024:

[starchief]

I largely agree with Mantis, although if we get a few young players signed up (Rooney, Cox, Hayes), keep some older ones like Munro, Esson and Proctor (after long pleadings, he finally gets his chance in defensive mid and becomes a key player) along with bringing through Shinnie and Ross, plus maybe others, perhaps in 2-3 years time, we could have the basis of a very good team capable of staying in the SPL.

I do think though, Pele needs to be brought in as a scout/adviser now to set the whole thing in motion. I don;t think that's necessarily a wage we cannot afford (quite the opposite in fact) or undermining Big Tel (no involvement in training or side selection) but the sooner a five-year plan starts, the sooner it finishes.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Terry and Maurice were part of the snow clearing team on the 26th which was very much a community or team effort. We need that spirit amongst some posters.

Terry brought along his dog that day, and being a classic butcher's dog, it had all the hall marks of a Lionel. Terry told him to stop doing this so Lionel, if that was his dog's name, did the opposite. Ask him to come to heal and he raced off to show off trickery in the snow. Now some might feel that Terry calls him Dougie, but to be fair to the little terrier, he did not take on too many snow clearers.

It was clear the dog was not called Foran. Humping in the snow was not his strong point.

Now the moral of the last few days is that if more people started to be positive, did a little bit for their club, stopped speculating like recovering moneymen, and sought out some extra support for Saturday, then the season mght just move a bit in our favour.

As Charlie Bannerman has so eloquently observed this is a club that has so far succeeded 'Against All Odds'.

Now let's be positive. Rooney is on the verge of greatness. If he scores a few more goals and tops SFL 1 he will attract attention not just because of his namesake. This team will fight for victory over Ross County like no other victory in their history...

[Alex MacLeod]

...and, assuming you all read what Rooney had to say in the papers, make loads of noise. It fires them up.

[caleykid1994]

Now let's be positive. Rooney is on the verge of greatness. If he scores a few more goals and tops SFL 1 he will attract attention not just because of his namesake.

John Rooney in the lower English leagues??? :024:

[Wilsononourwing]

Dundee 0 Airdrie 1 BELIEVE

[Caley Mad In Berks]

However I think some of the younger posters need a reality check. Just because we've spent a third of our history in the SPL doesn't mean that is our natural home.

If you've been with the club since 94 you will appreciate what hard work it was, especially escaping from SFL1 in 2004. Throughout the first 10 or 12 years of its life, ICT was a special club to be part of. ICT were capable of miracles. Our wee neighbours across the bridge threw McGregor's millions at the problem but they couldn't crack ICT because ICT had some of the best people at the right time. Pele was a special manager and he put together an amazing squad, a few of whom are still here. Robbo was able to make the same players nearly impossible to beat and turned us into a team that could grind out a 1-0.

Any talk of ICT being second this year is nonsense. Let's get through the season, let Terry and June wander off to pastures new, and get somebody who actually cares about the club. Ditch all the career pros who had to look up Inverness on a map and get back to basics. It'll probably take five years if we make the right decisions first time.

Just about the most sensible three paragraphs I've read on any post in this forum in a very long time.

[Jay_7]

I believe all right!

I believe that we need rid of David Sutherland before it's all too late.

I believe that once this is achieved, and let's face it, that'll be an achievement, we need rid of all of the current board. Our boardroom should be no place for "yes men" and our entire board are guilty of exactly that.

Only once we have achieved all of this, will we see the changes necessary in the dugout and on the pitch that will make us successfull again.

Is it any wonder that attendances are dwindelling at an alarming rate?

[Pele_Is_God]

Terry and Maurice DO care about this club Mantis, even though theyre not from Inverness. It's not their fault it's run by muppets.

[Charles Bannerman]

However I think some of the younger posters need a reality check. Just because we've spent a third of our history in the SPL doesn't mean that is our natural home.

At the risk of reviving one of the catch phrases of the old days on Caley Thistle Online ("I agree with Mantis" :( ) I have to say that in the case of what I have quoted above, I actually do. :(

Consider the following:-

* ICT is extremely lucky to be in existence at all. On several occasions between 1993 and 1996 it very nearly didn't happen or "unhappened".

* ICT was very lucky not to go under in the 1999-2000 period. It was only the "Trust" deal which prevented financial oblivion. NB - that is a fact and not an invitation to reopen any debate on the nature of the "Trust".

* ICT came back from the dead to win the First Division in 2004.

* ICT was very lucky indeed that its winning of the First Division title happened to coincide with the very marginal decision made by the SPL to allow groundsharing and to relax its 10,000 seats requirement. The window of opportunity to get into the SPL in the summer of 2004 was very narrow indeed - rather reminiscent of the narrowness of a similar window through which the club managed to squeeze itself to come into existence in the first place after both sides of the merger had painted themselves into corners in 1994.

* ICT therefore was very lucky to get into the SPL at all. Remember that in 1997 Dougie McGilvray laid a bet with Tam Cowan that they would do this by 2004 and the response was almost universal derision.

* ICT was very lucky to avoid another potentially fatal financial crisis by baling out of Aberdeen at the end of 2004 and getting back to two very rapidly constructed and resourced stands in Inverness.

* ICT was widely expected to be relegated instantly but, miraculously, held on in 2004-05 and in the end survived fairly comfortably. In similar terms ICT survived another four seasons in the SPL despite all the disadvantages of geography and low attendances and turnover.

* ICT was then rather UNLUCKY to go down last season after battling back from 4 points adrift to a 4 point safety margin and then spurning three opportunities to grasp safety.

In as marginal a situation as ICT has been in right from day minus one, it only required one bit of bad luck to send the club back to the SFL. It would therefore either be a very bad mistake, or the result of the inexperience of youth which has known little else, to assume that SPL status is the natural order of things for Invernes Caledonian Thistle.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Charles Bannerman

[Yngwie]

Most of the developments described by Charles as "lucky" were actually the result of brave decisions and initiatives from the boardroom.

[Charles Bannerman]

Most of the developments described by Charles as "lucky" were actually the result of brave decisions and initiatives from the boardroom.

I would be the first to agree that this was certainly a significant element in many situations and I indeed took it as a "given" that the good fortune I referred to was to a very large measure accompanied by what Yngwie speaks about. I don't think ICT could have got to the SPL and survived there for five years without decent measures of both benefits - ie the right people being there at the right time allied with a number of rather fortunate breaks

I'll go through each of my points in the context of Yngwie's suggestion.

*I really don't think anyone would really want to attribute the eventual emergence of the merger out of the chaos of Rose Street, Deryck Beaumont's office, the Sherriff Court and the District Council chamber to "brave decisions and initiatives from the boardroom" although a couple of resolutions put to the Third Battle of Rose Street were as shrewd as they were merger saving!

*Certainly the Board in 1999 played a significant part in getting David Sutherland involved and it was very fortunate that he, his influence with the Bank of Scotland and Tullochs' money were all around just when desperately needed... especially with regard to the manner in which the BoS became involved in spiriting away the debt. Again I don't want to become involved in a debate over the nature of this arrangement and whether or not the means justified the end, since without this it very probably would have been - the end.

*ICT coming back from the dead to win the First Division had little to do with the Board but a great deal to do with John Robertson, Donald Park and a great bunch of players. But to be realistic, with two games left, no one would really have given ICT a snowball's.

* It cannot be denied that ICT were simply fortunate to be in the right place at the right time when the SPL changed their arrangements amid the chaos of Partick Thistle's legal rearguard. However I would be the first to acknowledge the contribution of chairman Ken Mackie during that fraught summer of 2004. Ken's diplomacy and determination amount to one of the most telling contributions made by any ICT chairman at any point in the last 16 years. This was by no means the only example of the club being lucky to have the right chairman in place at the right time, although he was in no position to influence the internal machinations of the SPL.

* The combination of my last two answers becomes my answer to the next point about ICT being rather lucky to get into the SPL in 2004.

* Again there was the good luck to have the right man in de facto charge and calling the shots at the right time when you need to build stands very quickly - ie a builder who is also prepared partly to finance the project. (I do realise, by the way, that since relegation certain fans have undergone some kind of revisionist conversion as far as David Sutherland is concerned.)

* I would have to suggest that SPL survival for five years was a combination of good football management and good management from the Boardroom at a time when the lower reaches of the SPL were unable to sweep away a club with all the disadvantages referred to in the original post.

*My original post here principally referred to the final 3 or 4 games where a 4 point cushion became relegation on GD when victory, or in the last case even a draw, in any one of three games would have meant safety. There has to be an element of bad luck there in addition to any other causes you might like to attribute it to.

So I think Yngwie has actually inspired an excellent question for this year's "Higher ICT" Paper - "Assess the relative contributions of good luck and of good on field and boardroom management to the progress of football in Inverness from the Highland League to five seasons in the SPL".

Oops... forgot! They don't set Higher questions like that these days!

Edited January 4, 2010 by Charles Bannerman

[TheKnowledge]

* ICT therefore was very lucky to get into the SPL at all. Remember that in 1997 Dougie McGilvray laid a bet with Tam Cowan that they would do this by 2004 and the response was almost universal derision.

I remember listening to that on the way back from the stadium. I can't remember if we had been promoted on that day, or had already achieved it the weekend before, but the mocking manner in which THAT bet was placed! It was a good feeling to hear Tam Cowan acknowledge it in 04.

[Renegade]

I BELIEVE

I don't.